Curse

Stolen Souls · Mar 24, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiero

At the moment LS was introduced prices had been dropping steadily for months... most items cost less than half of what they once did. What is that term for a decrease in the level of prices again? A hint... it is the opposite of inflation.

It proves enough. That Anet implimented it for the reasons they saw as a problem.

Lower prices are what Anet wanted. ty for proving the point.

We can keep arguing infinately. Just gotta ask youself...what's the point? It's the same as the other big argument going on right now...which is "Should we be allowed 7 heros?". Some want it, some don't...can keep on arguing, but the bottom line is, it will not be implemented.

Hiero · Mar 24, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

It proves enough. That Anet implimented it for the reasons they saw as a problem.

It only proves how little Anet understands about the basic economy and ingame price levels in their own game.

There was no inflation. Making the whole point of LS only more questionable.

Striken7 · Mar 24, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Loot Scaling was put in place to make it harder for people to make gold and to combat bots; this is spelled out plainly enough in the article posted above. They said it was because they wanted to prevent "a flood of new gold into the economy" from solo farming and bots. But they never said why. Why is having tons of gold available to people a bad thing?

One can only assume that it's because this huge increase in available Gold would keep the prices of items up. And this was certainly true, before Hard Mode. Remember, Loot Scaling was implemented the same time as Hard Mode, so the effects of either one individually on the economy would have been impossible to determine. Just look at the prices of items before the Loot Scaling/Hard Mode update:

Sup Vigor/Sup Abs/30HP Pommels for 100K? 15^50 weapons costing 80-90K+ each? This is purely ridiculous, and clearly Anet wanted it to stop. And it would seem that they did just that. Look at the economy in GW today (just look at the relevant thread(s) on the front page). The #1 "complaint" is that previously rare items and upgrades are ridiculously common and easy to get, and this is driving the prices down (look at Sup Vigor runes at the merchant).

But why are these items so common? Surely loot scaling didn't magically increase the supply of these items; I mean, the whole point was to make it harder to earn gold. So why this huge increase in supply? Oh right, Hard Mode, with all the chests and higher level monster drops. Completely unrelated to Loot Scaling, this huge increase in previously rare items single-handedly drove prices down. This was only compounded by the addition of GW:EN, with dungeons and high level chests dropping even more (what have now become previously rare) items.

What would happen if they got rid of Loot Scaling? Prices would suddenly skyrocket again? Ridiculous. Supply would still be as high as ever, and demand would be exactly the same (which is constantly decreasing with time anyway, unless you still believe just as many new accounts are being created now as previously). Sure people will keep making new characters, and they will need items, but these players already have money, as well as any items that they want passed through storage, and friends to help them.

So what will actually happen? For casual players, getting collector drops will be easier for sure, as well as common materials and gold for armor. But more noticeably, and the issue behind Loot Scaling, people who solo-farm will make more money again. They'll be able to buy more of those select few vanity items that still have high price tags, and they will be all the happier for it. This will surely increase the popularity of farming, especially in Hard Mode (which didn't exist before Loot Scaling). You know what this means? Even more high end Gold drops entering the economy.

Now, why do we still have Loot Scaling again? Right, the second reason, to make bots inefficient. Now we come to this thread. With Anet taking a stronger stance on bots and Real-money trading, is Loot Scaling really necessary to combat bots? If Anet actually comes through with what they are claiming, then absolutely not.

Loot scaling, as an individual update without Hard Mode attached, helped no one. As was stated in the article, you either made the same amount of gold as before, or if you were a farmer, made less; this was Anet's goal to reduce the amount of gold in the game. Removing loot scaling will, in exactly the same manner, hurt no one. You will either make the same amount of money as before, or if you choose to farm with your play time, make more. And with prices for items at all time lows and no decrease in item supply in sight, this increase in gold will never see prices reach the ridiculous highs they were before loot scaling and hard mode were introduced.

-End-

Loviatar · Mar 24, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiero

It only proves how little Anet understands about the basic economy and ingame price levels in their own game.

There was no inflation. Making the whole point of LS only more questionable.

totally wrong on all counts....

players have been bitching about the good old days when they could make tons of gold an hour and items were scarce so they could make a fortune both ways.

1. gold drops straight

2. selling it for the highest bidder with tons of gold also.

i did not want a major vigor but i was not willing to pay an additional close to 5K each for 9 health points for the superior vigor..........35K was a bargain for a major back then.

good old days??.........hell no

inflation is scarce supply being chased after by tons of excess money supply which is EXACTLY what we had

Fril Estelin · Mar 24, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiero

It only proves how little Anet understands about the basic economy and ingame price levels in their own game.

I hope you realise that: 1) Anet is the only one able to see the "GW economy" as they're the only ones able to see each and every accounts (most people think "GW economy" as what they and their friends say, plus things they read on GWG); 2) LS was introduced as a means to tackle specifics threats to the economy, not as a panacea, and the reasons why it failed has probable nothing to do with economy.

Fay Vert · Mar 24, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

You must be newer to the game. Otherwise you wouldn't have said something so wrong, lol.

You appear to be mistaken over a number of things.

I am merely asking for some evidence of this rampant inflation that required ANet to impose the loot nerf. There is none, I'll say YET AGAIN, prices were LOWER before the nerf than ever before and falling. That is DEFLATION. So what was the great problem that required this mega fun nerf?

Stolen Souls · Mar 24, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

That is DEFLATION. So what was the great problem that required this mega fun nerf?

That's something you'd have to ask Anet...not me. Maybe the introduction of Hard Mode? Could you IMAGINE HM Raptor farming without LS? :/ Maybe to further drive prices down (which it achieved)?

Anet saw a problem. Anet implimented LS to fix said problem. Said problem was fixed (in Anet's eyes).

cebalrai · Mar 24, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Just watch what happens to the economy when GW2 comes out. Or even when GW2 gets a firm release date....

mr_groovy · Mar 25, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

Just watch what happens to the economy when GW2 comes out. Or even when GW2 gets a firm release date....

Better yet, watch the gw economy in 5 months from now.

Supply is greater then demand on golds. Aka people will sell almost nothing.
People should make money how now? Only through getting the rarest drops, while title grinding >.>.

Daggrs And All · Mar 25, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

I play GW for entertainment, not the elite armor, or tormented weapons, I dont care what my character looks like. What's the point of having lots of money,when you've already gotten everything you'll ever need? Why go solo farming for money, when your gonna waste it on a complete duplicate of what you already have except for the skin (same mods, different look)? The only gold i've ever really needed was for max armor on my characters, and weapons. Why should i care if lootscaling is removed or not? My point is...GW is a game, its for entertainment, not wealth In-game. IMO Solo Farming=boring Group Farming=fun. So I do make the little money I need by going out into an explorable area, and killing things, because its fun...I would rather be poor and have fun rather then have alot of wealth and be bored solo farming.

Creeping Carl · Mar 25, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

You appear to be mistaken over a number of things.

I am merely asking for some evidence of this rampant inflation that required ANet to impose the loot nerf. There is none, I'll say YET AGAIN, prices were LOWER before the nerf than ever before and falling. That is DEFLATION. So what was the great problem that required this mega fun nerf?

Why are people like you consistantly insisting that prices were lower before LS when they were NOT? They may have been lower than some points of GW's lifespan but they were NEVER lower than they have been since LS' implementation.

The so called "low" prices before LS were ridiculously high. If that's supposed to be low, then it's clear that something needed to be done to fix the inflated high prices.

This is ridiculous. I can see the same high profile farmers/traders whining about loot scaling. Anyone can clearly see it's based on greed.

Ork Pride · Mar 25, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Why are people like you consistantly insisting that prices were lower before LS when they were NOT? They may have been lower than some points of GW's lifespan but they were NEVER lower than they have been since LS' implementation.

The so called "low" prices before LS were ridiculously high. If that's supposed to be low, then it's clear that something needed to be done to fix the inflated high prices.

This is ridiculous. I can see the same high profile farmers/traders whining about loot scaling. Anyone can clearly see it's based on greed.

He's insisting that prices were lower because they were lower.

Default Name · Mar 25, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Lol... then, 80k for a +30hp mod is not low. 5k, now this is low and I like it.

Yea yea, more supply from HM, chests whatever bla bla bla. I really couldn't care less. What I know is before LS stuff are not affordable, unless you make it a point to farm (like full time PVE). Now, there is no need to farm and I can still give my toons nice stuff by playing the game normally and PVP with my time.

So yeah, to hell with farmers for all I care.

angmar_nite · Mar 25, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

you mean 30k to about 8 k for +30 right?

Back then 30k an hour was easy shit. Now 8k for farming is just barely within reach.

tmakinen · Mar 25, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

As stated, the idea behind loot scaling was to lower the relative prices of rare items, thus making them more accessible to the general populace. It succeeded in the 'price' part, less so with the 'access' part, because most items went from high end to below low end (though that was not caused solely by LS. Instead, there were several effects pushing in the same direction).

Which part of the prospective loot is worth selling to other players right now? Remember that time is money. If it takes - on average - longer to sell the item than getting the same amount of gold through other means then the item is not worth selling. Based on that criterion, the following items are worth selling

tomes (regular and elite)
perfect fortitude mods
perfect sundering mods (for noobs)
perfect martial arts weapons enchanting mods
"Aptitude not Attitude" and "Forget Me Not" inscriptions
various regular and special event collectables

Trying to sell pretty much everything else is a big fat waste of time (stuff like minis and runes are not listed because minis are not loot and runes can be sold to a trader - the loss of profit is more than gained back through zero selling time). There are some valuable skins that fetch an unproportional amount of gold but 99.9% of all rares never enter the player market because they are merchant fodder.

The consequence of this is that the entire economy has become a big lottery (instead of a small lottery that it used to be). Any method of steady, reliable income preferred by the large 'middle class' of players who are neither completely casual nor truly hardcore provides a very meagre livelihood. Only hardcore playing makes high ticket items a reliable income. The truly casual players don't even see any difference. Thus it was the middle class that got shafted by LS.

cebalrai · Mar 25, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Go read this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0225311&page=9

People are making up to 20k per hour farming right now. I believe them, since I make about 15k per hour and I'm far from the best farmer out there.

With that in mind, why are people wanting loot scaling removed? Because you can't have fun unless you make 30k per hour farming? Lazy?

Turbobusa · Mar 25, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Didn't they ban those before also? what exactly has changed that makes it ok to remove loot scaling?

FrAnt1c² · Mar 25, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Imo, people got round the lootscaling, ectos and golds werent added to lootscaling. Farming has changed a bit, but people still do farm, the days that you could farm ~40k in an hour are over, now you will have to settle with a mere 10k, get over it. Not such a big deal imo...

Fril Estelin · Mar 25, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

A question for the experienced people (venterans and knowledgeable power-traders/GW economists):

Is the actual high-end tier of the GW economy made of people who got tons of money from the pre-LS days? (please, leave aside flames and biased opinions)

I see so many people saying "remove LS so that we can farm again" than this simple fact makes me wonder if LS is actually protecting "us" (the non-l33t people) from even more madness on "high-end items", and the possible this would have on the rest of the economy (when people get this unbelieavable amount of money, they can buy "non-high-end" stuff so easily that it can impact "us"). I'm very tempted so say no because of that, but it's difficult to find the truth in the middle of this mess

. (hallomik, pull me to the dark side

)

Willow O Whisper · Mar 25, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

Imo, people got round the lootscaling, ectos and golds werent added to lootscaling. Farming has changed a bit, but people still do farm, the days that you could farm ~40k in an hour are over, now you will have to settle with a mere 10k, get over it. Not such a big deal imo...

= 100 hours if you wan't a set of fow.....